Resume an interview he Sagone Salvatore, director of ADVExpress, has created a Pasquale Barbella, published yesterday in the newspaper, in an ongoing debate on the present and future of communication. We hope that the position here will allow everyone to reflect on the opinions of a doyen of our trade.
As we have reduced the Italian advertising, what is the meaning of creativity today, where is it in our country? And, again, because there are more teachers, charismatic leaders, and what you should do to get out of the shallows? These are some questions that the experts faced, expressing substantial confusion about the future of this industry. When there is uncertainty around it is worth every now and then deal with those who, in the recent past, has done something good.
My thoughts immediately went to Pasquale Barbella, a teacher and leader like few other Italian advertising from the seventies to 2003. In that year he retired from business but continues to follow with passion and with a critical eye, the world of communications. The interview tackles and highlights many issues that are part of the ongoing debate, fueled by ADVexpress through the actions of those who have so far involved (Costa, Usuelli, Tranchina, Concato, Nenna, Broglia etc.) and those involved. His vision of reality in which we live and not advertising leaves no room for great optimism. Advertising, Communication, he says, are the mirror of the precise political and social situation of our country. And users still seem to prefer formulas 'archaic' communication despite the development opportunities offered by technology. In short, says Barbella, there is a climate conducive to professionalism. In fact, it is always paid less.
What's the answer then? From scratch, getting rid of the labels as a creative, account, etc.. In favor of new forms of pioneering animated by cultural consultants willing to trade ideas rather than routine. With
Barbella have inevitably touched on the theme of the Art Directors Club, which soon must renew their bodies. We discover that it has a great admiration for the only candidate currently out of the closet in a clear and official, Massimo Guastini. And space is given, he concludes, those who are willing to work hard to achieve results regardless of the size of the company in which it operates.
In the history of Italian advertising you're definitely one of the most important landmarks. You have written important pages as a copywriter, have founded an agency that has quickly set the most creative of the market. To mention only alcune delle tue campagne citiamo Swatch, Infostrada, Lacoste, Wind, ecc… Hai inoltre scritto articoli e saggi, un romanzo, e sei stato per ben due volte presidente dell’ADCI, nell’87 e nel ’93, entrando a fare parte anche nella Hall of Fame del Club. Alla fine della tua carriera sei stato anche membro del D’Arcy Worldwide Board of Directors e leader creativo D'Arcy per l'Europa. Dal 2003 non sei più coinvolto in maniera diretta nella pubblicità, ma continui ad occupartene insegnando comunicazione pubblicitaria in un master del PoliDesign.
1. Cosa pensi della comunicazione pubblicitaria italiana che oggi vedi sui mezzi tradizionali e non?
Il mio giudizio sulla pubblicità italiana - Taken as a whole - has never been too flattering, but it is now more worried than ever. I do not do these purely aesthetic: the degradation of communication exactly corresponds all'immiserimento political, economic and social time. The creative work has lost much of its weight, and never had been so underestimated as now, has become a slight enhancement of trade, a little 'as the plastic bags from the supermarket, with which it shares the status of object-polluting, outdated and cheap . I'm not the only one to mourn over the specific crisis in the advertising market, listen to the voices of many former colleagues and young people come to the profession in recent years, and their discomfort is even more intense than mine, I have the fortune of the ages of potermene stay on the sidelines. The crises of the past were often absorbed and overcome with a few shots of the imagination, many colleagues agree peers consider the seventies as the most exciting of our advertising since World War II onwards, and yet those were also the years of lead and the ' austerity, there was sure to be happy. We have lost faith in reason and in the future, thanks to an involution policy and institutional environment that does not hesitate to call and the unfortunate results of which are seen everywhere. I'm really curious paradoxes and contradictions that we are living. No paradox 1: the advertising of today is profoundly out of date, therefore timely. Untimely as abstract, farcical, in elementary and primitive symbols in the languages; very current because it is the mirror of how ruthless the country has decreased. No paradox 2: The client seems to require archaic ideas at the moment of maximum development of technologies, with the effect of widening the gap between what you choose to do and the opportunities available. That's like throwing in the trash and eat the oyster shell.
2. What is the meaning of the word creativity today?
Thee I'd say that the word "creativity" can not change direction depending on what day and time: the definition given by Annamaria Head in his latest book (also beautiful title: "The plot shining") is particularly dear to me: "Something new and useful to the community." Simple, no? Here, what I see around is old and useless, sometimes even harmful. But you want to know, I think, if today is meant by that word something other than yesterday. I must admit that in the past the word "creativity" has proved especially ambiguous. All they wanted, in words, but each was different. The creativity that appealed to the Star was not the same one that liked to Swatch, for example. Today I do not know what models of creativity are worth a good price on the market. They tell me that companies are willing to pay less and less. No kind of language, therefore, seems to deserve - from investors - the disbursement of a reasonably price commitment required. This is very serious, and confuses those who do the work that I did.
3. What agencies should do to get out 'from dry' where are they?
I do not know and frankly I do not care. The fate of the agencies not concern me anymore. That I feel more present and the future of individual players: the best, of course, those who have talent, imagination, culture, intellectual honesty and willingness to go against the grain. Why should I fret about the world of business? The financials of the multinationals have done everything to destroy her jewels, Fuck them. My only regret is that to pay for their mistakes or their greed are and will be the innocent.
4. Yet you, like almost all independent contractors in this area have given the agency established with your partners, the BGS, the 'enemy', the 'financials' you speak of, namely the large holding companies. I remember the relationship with DMB & B, then integrated into Leo Burnett, Publicis and controlled by the group today. The decision then was to sell to capitalize on the results of your work, or there was also the basis for some other reason? In short, know your words of repentance. Looking back do again paving choice?
The agency that I founded in 1990 along with members of Turin was already a corporation: when tightening the agreement, had CGSS Bélier as the majority shareholder. Bélier was part of the Havas group, then, after several changes in that network, we found ourselves in the same circuit of Euro RSCG, with the embarrassment of Fiat to manage communication in a house dedicated to Citroën. Fiat knew for three years and tolerated the coexistence, then we strongly suggest you change partners and get married with DMB & B, which was already working for Fiat in the international arena. But regardless of all that, I must say that my dislike for the network financials and broke much later. I have always worked in international networks and I have considered respectable until the beginning of 2000. I began my career in CPV, a small British Network (Colman, Prentiss and Varley), who had his unit in Milan most important and best developed. This small network was later acquired by the U.S. Kenyon & Eckhardt, with whom relations had always extremely civil. In turn, the Kenyon & Eckhardt was later acquired by Bozell & Jacobs. Immediately after the entire system must be transmitted for a short time in the house of a third party purchaser, the Lorimar Productions in Los Angeles, a major television ('Dallas' was their creature) who aspired to expand its business in all areas of entertainment, media and communication. After just one year the Lorimar we unloaded, beset by financial problems following a Hollywood flop. Executives at the top of Bozell into debt to buy back shares. In Italy we had problems - BJKE not pulled properly - and the network that would help us because he could not do more than we mange. It was at that time that I began to doubt the real advantage of being in a multinational company. In Italy the crisis by dabbing with a new shareholder structure and strategy by entering into partnership with a team of investors led by Luca di Montezemolo. The beginning was excellent, but when Montezemolo went on to deal with full time dell’organizzazione dei Mondiali di calcio ricominciammo a soffrire. A quel punto colsi la sfida di ricominciare da zero con la sede milanese, tutta da costruire, di una nuova entità chiamata BGS. Come ti dicevo, eravamo soci di minoranza dei francesi. Non ci diedero mai fastidio; ci trattarono bene anche perché i nostri clienti erano stati tutti conquistati sul campo. Erano nostri. Verso la fine del 2002, la Publicis comprò il sistema Leo Burnett e il sistema D’Arcy (con i vari accessori: centrali media, direct marketing, web agencies etc.). La prima decisione fu di sopprimere il network D’Arcy, che su scala mondiale era sofferente ma vantava in alcuni paesi (a cominciare dal nostro) tre o quattro agenzie-gioiello. It was clear then that the megadecisioni depended on the will of a small group of accountants. The BGS was literally taken to pieces, the remains were divided between Saatchi & Saatchi (who inherited our hub dedicated to Procter & Gamble), Leo Burnett (which incorporates our headquarters in Turin) and Publicis (which incorporated the Milan). End of the party. What should I add? I'm too honest not to admit that we have had some responsibility for ourselves, Italian shareholders (but did not own more shares sold by failing to contract over time). Gagliardi and I were driven to conclude his career. I can not exclude that the Americans and the French-buyers-sellers BGS have feared that without its founder members would not be the same as before. However, this does not justify the immediate abolition of the fifth agency of the Italian market, a company that had sparkled relying solely on the professional quality, who had achieved excellent results in both turnover and reputation in the creative, and that an investigation had shown (only one of its sector) of the twenty companies ideals to work.
5. Speaking of mergers, history seems to repeat itself in these days with the generation that followed: Saffirio junior, Tortelli and vigorous. It seems their impending merger DDB. What do you think of this passage, what advice would you give to kids who also tu hai contribuito a formare?
Mi guardo bene dall’interferire: Saffirio, Tortelli e Vigoriti non hanno certamente bisogno dei miei consigli. Emanuele Saffirio è di casa nell’environment internazionale dell’advertising da quando aveva poco più di vent’anni e conosce quell’ambiente come le sue tasche. Il problema non è con chi ti metti; sorge nel momento in cui il tuo partner internazionale cambia identità - come è continuamente successo nel mio caso, fin dai tempi della CPV. Non credo che sia utile ai lettori addentrarsi, in questa conversazione, nei singoli casi. I problemi e le opportunità del momento, quelli da cui è partito il nostro discorso, sono di più ampia portata e si generate the shadow of a crisis era. This forces workers in the field to review or expand their sphere of action to reshape placements, business languages, and with some advance of the macro-phenomena, to ride to do with the change rather than overwhelmed. What you mentioned is an agency that has managed to achieve success in the years worst: a sign in there that have the skill and the balls to defend themselves from danger. Chapeau.
4. Voltiamoci back again to better understand what is happening today. You're part of that generation that produced talents of unquestionable value, true 'masters' of communication: charismatic, rispettati e spesso coinvolti a commentare i fenomeni sociali e di costume del paese. Quando tu e i vari Pirella, Sanna, Mignani, per citarne alcuni, entravate in una riunione il cliente si alzava in piedi, vi ascoltava con grande interesse e, ancora una volta, con grande rispetto del vostro ruolo (e, forse, anche per questo la creatività italiana riusciva a dire la sua nei festival internazionali). La domanda è: perché secondo te non ci sono più leader carismatici, di cui si sente oggettivamente la mancanza, cosa è successo?
Tu dici che se ne 'sente oggettivamente la mancanza': io avrei qualche dubbio in proposito. Se il mercato si sentisse realmente orfano di leader, se li inventerebbe da oggi al domani. Prendi l’eterno problema delle gare e del prezzo al ribasso. Se un’azienda continua ad avvalersi di un espediente così impersonale e bizzarro, vuol dire che non le interessano le capacità e le competenze di Tizio o di Caio; pesca nel mucchio perché è solo a caccia di un piccolo scoop da brandire nei prossimi sei mesi. Come se per curare la sciatica si giocasse al gratta-e-vinci anziché andare dal medico.
5. Sei d’accordo che le generazioni che vi hanno sostituito sono andate via via impoverendosi di quel carisma e, forse, di quelle capacità che avevate voi? E’ possibile che la pubblicità ha perso la sua forza innovativa che ha conosciuto da Carosello in poi? Insomma, cosa è successo, e cosa sta going on?
The word 'charisma' makes me uneasy: to endorse and Landru Berlusconi, two dealers who never accept candy from a dinner invitation. Nor can I assume that the earlier ones (including myself) were smarter than those of today would be contrary to any law statistics. I can only think that Pirelli, Sanna, the Mignot and others like them have been appreciated and respected with a climate conducive to professionalism, and a climate that has since fallen below zero. I firmly believe that we can not understand the evolution of anything, regardless of historical context, and this concerns all the more advertising, which is a straightforward function of the economy di mercato e della cultura mediatica - due soggetti alquanto sofferenti di questi tempi.
6. Secondo te, le aziende e i pubblicitari sono consapevoli che la pubblicità ha una grande responsabilità nello sviluppo culturale e civile del paese?
Da come imposti la domanda, si presumerebbe che il ruolo educativo della pubblicità dovrebbe essere superiore a quello della scuola e delle istituzioni. No, spero che non sia così. Meglio: distinguiamo. Le aziende sono le aziende, i pubblicitari sono un’altra cosa. Le aziende, quelle sì, potrebbero e dovrebbero sentire fortissima la responsabilità che dici; ma si comportano come se gli altri non esistessero. Molte non hanno più una patria geografica, a causa risks and opportunities of globalization, others are taking responsibility away even in relation to their customers, diverting services and any protests on so-called call centers. Advertisers have less power, less to say. It would be nice, of course, you also feel ethically committed (and I know that many of them are) to deal with the public and themselves with more respect, but you can not change Italy with advertising, if the ruling class does everything to turn senile. I phrase that comes to mind Bernbach "All of us who work with the media have against the next great responsibility. We can help you rise to a step or barbaric ...". Let's say that in today's advertising options are sadly changed: we can leave as is or the next working actively to its final settlement.
7. As the digital revolution is changing and will change the craft of advertising? And, more generally, how will this profession?
I already know a dozen young Italian professionals in the digital abroad: New York, Sydney, London and Paris. The BGS was among the first agencies achieve a web advertising agency internal still remember the reluctance of customers to pay for that service in an appropriate manner. today's Italy is a country hopelessly antiumanistico antiprogressista and we are forced to worry about values \u200b\u200band rights at risk as the Constitution, independence of judiciary, freedom of the press, the priority of work, etc.. etc.. as if we were suddenly plunged back in the stone age. How will this profession? In a country could become healthy again, something exciting: a lot of wonderful possibilities that were not there before, new business models, the imagination au pouvoir. In a country like our patient, who also spits on their units and their symbols, there is hope only in a radical change of course in the end of the cholera there are miracles that even the technology può fare. Ad ogni buon conto, dal momento che col pessimismo non si risolve nulla, direi che sarebbe utile ricominciare da zero. Auspico nuove forme di pionierismo, del tutto alternative ai modelli di mercato preesistenti: la nascita e l’affermazione di piccoli gruppi di consulenti culturali, disposti a commerciare idee anziché routine, pronti a modificare le procedure e i linguaggi cui siamo abituati - a partire dallo slang di settore. Non ha più senso avvalersi delle categorie (sostanzialmente retoriche) che furono utili in passato: non sarebbe male liberarsi una volta per tutte di etichette come Creativo, Account, etc., non perché la qualità dipenda dalle denominazioni, quanto per esercitarsi a reinventare o rimodellare il proprio trade. Must correspond to the digital revolution a revolution in thought and action, otherwise we are at the point before. I guess the communications market will end up in a net polarization: one is the 'ad' classic doomed to perpetuate the farce with testimonials peddle the illusion of happiness to a "consumer" is increasingly poor and depressed, the other a patrol - more and more dense - designers of ideas, not so much interested in the "hit and run" the advertisement as the conception of worlds that are useful to the client side. The most brilliant ideas that I see around are not from the conventional sector of advertising but from other sources. Try to enter, for example, the site http://www.thewildernessdowntown.com/ - and see how much intelligence there has been made to promote a record of Arcade Fire. How would such an exercise? Advertising? Web design? We need new words.
8. How do you rate the current debate within the ADC? The club can still play an important role? What goals should be achieved?
do not know if an association has the power to improve their subscribers, but I know for a fact that members can improve the association, and if the association is strong, healthy, motivated by collective energy and exposed to the surrounding reality, can be very useful to the movement of ideas and the rebirth of an industry which, as we said, really needs a jolt. The Club is faced with a challenge: to restore luster and credibility to the most noble of Italian communications.
9. What features should the next president? You have a few names in mind? How do you assess the candidacy of Massimo Guastini? In
Massimo Guastini I place the utmost respect and trust, because it has been shown to have a vision not asphyxiated and much courage. In addition it seems to me with the wisdom necessary to resolve disputes and establish a constructive dialogue with members of today and tomorrow. I learned a conoscere Massimo negli ultimi tempi; un’amicizia più virtuale che diretta, materializzatasi attraverso blog, social network e scambi di mail. Poi ci siamo finalmente incontrati e abbiamo chiacchierato appassionatamente per quattro ore di fila. Non mi capita spesso di imbattermi in persone che riescano a farmi parlare fino alla disidratazione della lingua. Bravo, combattivo e leale: io lo vedo così. Come altro dovrebbe essere il leader di un organismo come l’Adci, in questo momento difficile?
10. Quindi, secondo te non ha importanza che il presidente lavori nelle agenzie più grandi, quelle per intenderci, che producono se non la creatività migliore almeno quella più nota (non so se sei al corrente della polemica under way within the ADC)?
some controversy as long as you are leaving. The space should be left to those who would to do to get results, regardless of the size of the company in which it operates. Fail and, above all, an excellent copywriter, I tend to trust those who write well.
11. Is not it curious that there are other candidates, and none of the creative moment 'in vogue' wish to apply? In addition to statements made by individuals (see Taddeucci Gitto or) how do you explain this?
is nothing new. It has always made some effort to get someone to apply. The Presidency of the ADC is not honored tout court: it is exhausting work, if done right. I still remember when Pino forcing Pilla for the post. Assignment that nobody wanted, from him. The weight lifting from a chair hidden in the back and we took him in her arms up to the podium of the Assembly, saying: "A few bales. Now it's up to you." Willy-nilly, had to adapt.
10. Based on your experience as President, '87 and '94, what suggestions would you give the new president? What do you hope for the future of the Club?
, 87 and 94 are prehistoric. Prehistory noble, of course, to which they are viscerally attached. But I have said many times that must start from scratch? The conditions have changed. Yes, now and then (but now more) should roll up their sleeves and work like hell, but that the next president, whoever he is, knows very well: you do not need me to tell me. What I hope for the future of the Club? That makes sparks, and become the undisputed landmark of the creative community. Not only that of advertising, if possible. I know it's a utopia. But without some utopia is still sitting on the toilet all my life.
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